A while ago I had an opportunity to interact with Dionysus. He asked me "When the maenads come calling, will you join." I interpreted this roughly as if offered an opportunity to join his revel would I or would I resist. I answered roughly "I would join up to my limit." He responded, "That wouldn't be joining at all, now would it?"

Not wanting to provoke a scene with a god I left it at that. Later in the evening a group of us were discussing the worship of Pan and how those who work with Pan find their limits pushed and find themselves challenged to let go and live in the moment.

I've never been at a Dionysus revel, although I have been at a relatively tame Pan revel. I've certainly been at a number of Venus revels.

Dionysus's question started me thinking. "I'll join up to my limit," is very much the kind of answer I'd give Venus when talking about all sorts of surrender, and it's the kind of answer she seems to expect. There does seem to be a difference in how I approach a revel in my Venus work and the sorts of things Dionysus and Pan seem to be looking for. All three gods seem to value living in the moment, embracing your feelings, relaxing your limits, connecting with your primal self.

However there seem to be some differences, and I think it would be interesting to explore them. I find that my Venus work is focused on transformation of myself. I work on getting comfortable with fewer limits. I do spend a lot more time living in the moment in my daily life. I'm less self-conscious. However as part of letting go, I carefully consider my safety and that of those around me. The limits are very situational and I am generally very aware of what the limits are.

When I enter a Venus revel, I know where my limits are as much as I would entering a BDSM scene. Typically by this point, I'm comfortable enough that I can go through an entire revel without coming close to feeling unsafe. I know where the limits are, but they are in the back of my mind, out of the way, not interacting with me in the moment. Sometimes as I interact with someone else, I'll focus on their safety and for a few moments understanding the new situation and its limits will come to the foreground.

being very aware of the limits has helped me have much more relaxed limits and be much more open than I was in the past. I know that there are a lot of risks I'm comfortable with because I've thought about them. I can live in the moment without worrying about whether I'll second-guess myself later.

This works well for me. However I'm getting the impression thinking about Dionysus and Pan that there's another mechanism for surrender out there. Something more about finding a time and space and letting go in that space. I suspect it gets somewhere similar in the end, but the path is very different.

I've found it useful to consciously think about how much of the Venus work seems to be about explicitly understanding your limits, exploring them and how to adjust them for a situation. I had an intuitive feel for how this fit into Venus work, but now this is something I can actually try to explore and write about. I don't think I will personally explore either the path of Pan or Dionysus, but I'm very interested in thoughts on how these paths compare and contrast with Venus's exploration of limits.